Dan Sutton: I thought that to be a strong, effective, successful leader, that I had to know everything. And I truly did. And I put that pressure on me to the point that I would have to take a Tums every now and then or a Prilosec every now and then. I gave myself self-induced stress because I obsessed over needing to know everything. I thought that I needed to know everything. I thought that if I didn't know everything, then that was weak.
Drew Dinkelacker: Welcome to Bullseyes & Blind Spots, a unique series of episodes from The Marketing Accelerator Podcast where chief executives share pivotal decisions that define their leadership and the blind spots that reshape their perspective. I'm your host, Drew Dinkelacker, President of MarketingAccelerator.com. And today's guest, that's Dan Sutton, President and CEO of Kemba Credit Union, which is a member-owned financial institution serving more than 130,000 members across Southwest Ohio, Northern Kentucky, and Southeast Indiana. Dan, you've been with Kemba for nearly 27 years and have held multiple leadership roles, including Chief Financial Officer, Chief Operating Officer, and now President and CEO. Wow, that's awesome. Welcome to Bullseyes & Blind Spots!
Dan: Yeah, thanks, Drew. Well, you just wore me out reading that.
Drew: Yeah, 27 years of leadership experience. This is going to be fruitful. So, let's start with a bullseye. Take us back to a time where you had to make a decision, an important... Well, maybe it was an important decision you thought at the time, maybe it wasn't an important decision, I don't know. But take us back to the time where you've had to make a decision and that decision proved to just knock it out of the park. Tell us about it.
Dan: Okay. I think this morning when I was thinking about preparing for this, I thought that I was gonna talk to you about decisions made during COVID. And I imagine you probably get a lot of CEOs talking about decisions made during COVID, and I could do that. But I think I'm going to pivot on that right now, literally as we're sitting here talking, because at that time, during COVID, obviously everything was uncertain and everybody was scared and wondering and worrying about everything. And during that time, Kemba Credit Union was growing pretty fast and we had outgrown our corporate headquarters at the time. And when speaking with the board, we had talked about building a new headquarters. Where should we build a new headquarters? How big should the new headquarters be? And I remember saying something to the board in the tune of, "It'll never be cheaper than it is today." And that was in 2018. And my point on that was we knew that we were going to only be able to kick the can down the road just for a little bit longer and then that we were going to have to build an office. And if we knew that today that we were going to have to build an office, I knew that tomorrow's prices were not going to be any cheaper than today. What I didn't know was COVID was going to come. What I didn't know is supply chains were going to come to a screeching halt. And what I didn't know is that labor and materials were going to go through the roof. And so, my comment to the board in 2018 of, "It'll never be cheaper than it is today," ended up playing out actually, Drew. We got into COVID, obviously. We started building a headquarters during that time. Everything did come to a halt when it comes to supply chain. That building that we built, when I made that statement and what we built that building for, it is now insured for twice as much, and it's only 2026. And so, we were able to procure the materials needed to build the building. We were able to hire the people to build the building. And then today, when I look at my insurance bill, they are now insuring this building for twice as much as we built it for. So, call it luck, call it skill, whatever it was, but we did hit that one and we're very happy with the new building. My prediction of never being cheaper than it is today ended up being the right statement.
Drew: So, it sounds like that you said that to the board, though it might have just been a side comment, but you had some confidence around that statement. It wasn't just pulled out of the air. Would you say that's true? You had confidence about that?
Dan: Well, I just knew that we live in inflationary times and I knew that if we're going to build a building anyway and we have the money why not build it now before inflation does? Even if consumer prices were normal, like 2.8% or 3%, it didn't take a genius to know prices were going to go up next year, the year after. We didn't know that they were going to go up as high as they did. So, I just, I knew with some certainty the prices were going to go up. I didn't know that we'd see 9% inflationary years in that. So, I had some confidence prices were going to go up. I had no idea they were going to go up like the way they did.
Drew: Did you get pushback on that decision?
Dan: No, not really. I think that the board, we were growing pretty fast and the board realized and understood that... We were sending jobs, we were sending back-office jobs out to branches and down to other buildings. And we were fragmented in what was happening. What was costing us more than the building was being dysfunctional and being fragmented. And so, it was costing more in lack of productivity and efficiency. And so, the board, very supportive on that decision, and we are very, very happy. There is no builder buyer's remorse and just a good all-over call for all of us.
Drew: So, there is the leadership rub. You're seeing this opportunity to build, but there's a little challenge with it, but you're seeing the price that's being paid by not having this new facility. And that's what's unique about that leadership role, is you see things from a different perspective oftentimes. So that, it makes total sense. That's great. That's great. Knocked it out of the park. Well done. So now let's shift to the blind spot question. Every leader has a blind spot. You can't avoid them. We're human. The trick is discovering them. So, can you share a time when a blind spot in your leadership came to light? What was it? How did it surface? What'd you learn from it?
Dan: There are a lot. There really are. You are right. We're not perfect people and perfect species. And I think as I was growing up and climbing the leadership ladder, Drew, I put a lot of pressure and stress on myself. I thought that to be a strong, effective, successful leader, that I had to know everything. And I truly did. And I put that pressure on me to the point that I would have to take a Tums every now and then or a Prilosec every now and then. I gave myself self-induced stress because I obsessed over needing to know everything. I thought that I needed to know everything. I thought that if I didn't know everything, then that was weak. And I didn't want to be weak. I didn't want others to think that I was weak. And so, I put this pressure on me that I had to know everything. And I don't know when the light bulb went off or on, however you look at it, but it dawned on me and I realized that leaders, successful leaders today, they don't have to know everything. But the successful leader today has to know who does. And once I accepted that, once I gave myself permission and to be vulnerable, and if somebody were to ask me, even if it was a board member had asked me a question, if I didn't have the answer on the ready, that that was okay, but I knew who did. And as our business was growing, so even if it was a business internal, if maybe it was an IT business, maybe it's a lending decision that we did, I might not know the answer, but I know who does and I know how to get it. Once I gave myself permission, I didn't have to take so many Tums anymore. But again, you have to know who does know the answers. And the way to do that is build a network or surround yourself with people that you can trust. So, my blind spot was thinking I had to know it all, when in reality I didn't. I just need to know who did.
Drew: And you've explained that one of the downsides of that sense of, "I feel like I have to know it all," there was a personal physical cost that was paid. Do you think there was any ripple effect in how you led because you're dealing with that level of stress?
Dan: Yeah, probably. Probably by not letting my other... Like, by having to know everything, I probably pinched the wings of my team around me. Whereas they are decision makers, they are empowered and embraced to have to know things on their own, because without me, the business is going to go on anyway. And so, by me kind of allowing them to kind of grow up in their own right, in their own leadership way, the pressure, the responsibility that they now have to own because there I was owning it for them, if you think about it. But now they have to own it. And if I come to them and I'm looking for that answer, then they're going to have to up their game. So, it allowed me to physically get a little bit better, more sleep at night, but it allowed them to grow, grow in responsibility. Or they have to go ask their direct reports the answer and that. So, it was a trickle-down effect, I think, that I didn't see coming.
Drew: Can you share with me what window of time this was? Was this five years ago, 20 years ago that you gave yourself permission?
Dan: I think it was, I think it was in 2017. So somewhere between 2017 and 2018 that I... And it wasn't an emergency room visit that said, "You better do this or else," but it was just maybe, maybe I truly didn't know the answer to something and I went and asked. Maybe it was the CFO at the time, and I realized, "Oh, that worked," and no one looked at me differently. Nobody judged me. I don't know, I don't really have that moment, but I would imagine it was something like that. But I do know that it was probably somewhere around 2017 or 2018, and here we are now 2024. So, it's been a while now.
Drew: I think everybody that goes into business has that, the whole "buck stops here, I need to know everything" kind of mentality. And I get that in some ways the buck does stop with you, but that doesn't mean you have to know everything. And I don't even remember the circumstances, but it was a one-on-one conversation with a person and they had asked a question and I was pausing and then sort of talking but not really saying anything. And she says to me, "It's okay to say you don't know." And you know what? That was a freeing moment. I appreciate her saying that to me. And that to me was my little light bulb moment. Hey, it's okay to not know. It's okay to admit that. It's not a problem.
Dan: Yeah.
Drew: But as you said, you gotta be able to go back and get the answers and know who the people are. So, thanks for sharing that blind spot. Those are kind of tough to share, so I appreciate that, Dan.
Dan: You're welcome.
Drew: Before we go on to our final question, I have a quick message for our audience. If today's conversation has you thinking about your own bullseyes and blind spots, well, I've created a companion resource designed for chief executives. It's called the Bullseyes & Blind Spots Accelerated Guide. It's a fast 10-minute read that'll help you cut through marketing fog, confront blind spots, and gain the clarity you need to lead with confidence. And you can download that guide and start your analysis at BullseyesAndBlindSpots.com.
Drew: Now, Dan, now to the fun question. This is the time travel one. If you could sit down with yourself 20 years ago, your 20-year, 30-year younger self, what wisdom would you share with Dan Jr. about career and personal life?
Dan: Yeah, Dan Jr. That's funny. Well, I did prepare for this today, okay. And I thought about that and I appreciate you allowing me to kind of do that and time travel with my own self. And I started to write down some bullet points, and I'll read you a couple of bullet points, but I wanted to, if it's okay, I wanted to just... I actually did write a letter to my younger self. And so, the bullet points that I put together were as I was sitting there thinking about, man, a leadership hack, because we're talking about a leadership hack, and that people matter more than strategy. Time is your scarcest asset. Clarity beats complexity. Culture is built in the small moments. Don't wait for certainty. Protect your reputation. Take care of your health. We already talked about that.
Drew: Right.
Dan: And that, and so as I was writing these bullet points down on scrap paper and I thought, "Well, this is fun. Why don't I just write myself a short, I promise it won't be long, a short little letter to myself?" So, if you're all right with it...
Drew: Absolutely.
Dan: I will read you, to answer your question, a letter to myself. It's titled 'Dear Younger Me.' You think success will come from working harder than everyone else. Hard work matters, but it isn't the whole story. What will matter most is the people you surround yourself with. The right team will turn ordinary ideas into extraordinary results. You will learn that leadership is less about having all the answers and more about having the courage to make decisions when the path isn't clear. Move forward anyway. Adjust when needed. Progress always beats perfection. There will be moments when things go wrong, deals fall apart, plans fail, and people will disappoint you. Don't let those moments harden you. Let them teach you. Every setback will sharpen your judgment if you allow it. Protect your reputation at all cost. Money comes and goes, but trust, once lost, is nearly impossible to rebuild. And remember this: The company will never love you back. So, make time for the people who do. Your health, your family, and your character will matter far more in the end than any title. Lead with integrity. Stay curious. Build something that outlasts you. Work hard so you can play harder. Signed, Your Older Self.
Drew: So that's super. And you even quoted my mom.
Dan: I did?
Drew: You said, you work hard, so go out and have fun, go play hard. She would say that. But those were some wonderful insights in there, Dan. I mean, that's dense. We could go walk into each one of those and talk about it. But here's what I want to ask you, here's... I'm going to catch you off guard. What would you think younger Dan would think about where Dan is today in life, career, personal, whatever?
Dan: Yeah, I think that, I think younger Dan always thought that older Dan would be in some kind of leadership role. I think that just based on sports, 'cause I've played sports my whole life, I was blessed to be the captain of most of my teams. So, I think that younger Dan would not be surprised that older Dan is in a high leadership chair. I don't know that younger Dan would've ever thought that older Dan would've been the Chief Executive Officer of a $2 billion financial institution responsible for 310 employees. I would think that talking to younger Dan, I think he would've been receptive to dream big, 'cause we've all been told as a youngster, "You could be anything you want to be. You want to be the president, you want to go to the moon, you work hard and you'll get there." And I think younger Dan would've believed it, but I don't know that younger Dan would've ever thought that older Dan could've ever made it to the Chief Executive chair.
Drew: Interesting. So, dream big. [laughter]
Dan: Dream big.
Drew: That's awesome. Well, Dan, thanks so much for sharing your journey with us. The bullseyes that gave you confidence, the blind spots that shaped your growth. Your candor and insights remind us that leadership isn't about perfection, it's about learning, adapting, staying true to what matters most. It was awesome. So, thanks for being on the episode today.
Dan: You're welcome. Thank you for having me. It was fun.
Drew: Absolutely. Subscribe to our podcast today and find out where your bullseyes and blind spots are with the resources at BullseyesAndBlindSpots.com. I'm Drew Dinkelacker, President of Marketing Accelerator.